Currently, the fastest Powermac (stock from Apple) is the dual processor 1.42 GHz model. I don't see any (non-Apple) processor upgrades for the 166MHz bus models (the mirror door models), only the earlier 133MHz bus models.
Will MorphOS support 133 MHz models upgraded with 3rd party processor upgrades? The max available for these is a 2.0 GHz 7448 processor. That's pretty attractive (although there are cheaper 1.6 7447 upgrades too).
I'm just worried that MorphOS might balk at a system upgraded with these non-native processor upgrades.

best thing to do is wait for MOS 2.5

That is my intention. However, I would like to have some hardware on hand when its released. I've got a Mac Radeon 9000 video card, an NEC USB 2.0 card, and a Soundblaster Live card.
I can either buy a 1.42 GHz MDD Powermac or a Quicksilver Powermac (and upgrade the processor). Since I've seen some posts from the developers that would indicate that they're using third party accelerators, I'm hoping I can use one in a Quicksilver Powermac to get a faster processor (than 1.42 GHz). A 7448 processor would be nice too. I'm just not sure its going to be supported.Maybe I ought to just go for a 1.42 GHz MDD. After all, MorphOS should be more than fast enough on that system.

I think a lot of MorphOS users want to know which models and accelerators/CPU upgrades will be supported. There was a post by Ralph not too long ago that mentioned which model had finished testing and which model was on it's way to him for testing (Quicksilver w/1.8GHz upgrade CPU IIRC), but he warned people from buying anything until 2.5 was released.

I am wondering if the architecture of the G4 PowerMac will allow it to provide faster benchmark results than the G4 MacMini with the same clock speed? Will the 1.42GHz G4 PowerMac be faster than the 1.42GHz, or 1.5GHz G4 MacMini?

@Jim

here for MDD upgrade CPU card:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore_mdx_duet.html

but remember that MDD Dual 1.42Ghz is VERY VERY VERY powerful :)

@amigadave
yes :)

[ Edited by Divinity on 2010/2/10 21:12 ]

The MDD does have a faster ATA controller, and faster ram access, so you may be able to beat the 1.42 ghz mini stock, the 1.5 ghz maybe if you get a 128/256m video card

Quote:

ATA66 vs ATA100 might make a slight difference, but since Powermacs with DDR only use half the bandwidth of that type of memory, I doubt there's any difference between SDR and DDR Powermacs.

Jim I know that u would like to have your HW ready to go when MorphOS 2.5 will be released (as I did with Mac Mini). I'm repeating myself: don't buy powerbook, don't buy powerbook yet ;) but in this situation the best option is just to wait.. I know, patience is not my good side as well but it's better to wait than to regret later.

[ Edited by pampers on 2010/2/10 22:44 ]

> Will MorphOS support 133 MHz models upgraded with 3rd party
> processor upgrades?

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6684&forum=11#68067 indicates so, I think. And even 100 MHz models with upgrade cards according to https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6690&forum=3#68196 :-)

Thanks Andreas. Considering that I can upgrade a Quicksilver Powermac with a more powerful processor (than I can get in a Mirror Door model), the lower initial price, and the fact that the minor upgrades on the MDD model are not that significant I'm leaning toward a Quicksilver Powermac.

> A 7448 processor would be nice too. I'm just not sure its going to
> be supported.

Don't bet on it.

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6770&forum=3&post_id=69337#69337

> since Powermacs with DDR only use half the bandwidth of that type of
> memory, I doubt there's any difference between SDR and DDR Powermacs.

The G4 CPU cannot use DDR better than SDR, right. But as you know, there's processing going on besides the CPU ;-)

http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html
http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr2.html
http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr5.html

Conclusion: DDR has advantage over SDR in full system load situations.

I've been trying to figure that claim out, Andreas. Apple made that statement when the DDR models were introduced, but what else besides the processor accesses the system memory? DMA? What?

Quote:

Somehow this mantra sounds familiar to me...

> The MDD does have a faster ATA controller, and faster ram access, so you
> may be able to beat the 1.42 ghz mini stock

PowerMac MDD models and Mac mini G4 don't differ in ATA and RAM speed specs. With MorphOS supporting only single CPU I don't really see how PowerMac G4 without upgrade card could beat Mac mini G4, except for graphics performance with a bigger than 64 MiB VRAM graphics card of course.

> what else besides the processor accesses the system memory? DMA? What?

Yes, everything that uses DMA. For instance the ATA controller or the Ethernet controller. Just read my 3rd Barefeats link. It's benchmarked and explained therein.

I'm going to have to check that out and educate myself.

>PowerMac MDD models and Mac mini G4 don't differ in ATA and RAM speed >specs. With MorphOS supporting only single CPU I don't really see how >PowerMac G4 without upgrade card could beat Mac mini G4, except for >graphics performance with a bigger than 64 MiB VRAM graphics card of >course.

I'm no expert here on macs, I only have general knowledge which may/may not be accurate, this time it has proven to be inaccurate. I have a 1.25 ghz MDD that doesn't currently run, so i definitely don't know from experience. I see I was proven wrong, no issue.

The ATA controller on a MDD may not be faster than on the mini but you can use faster 3.5" drives I presume.
The 7447 used in the mini has twice the L2 cache of the 7455 used in the MDD but that has 2meg of L3 cache (at least in the 1.42Ghz version) which may compenate.

Personally as much as I'd like to run one of those 7448 2GHz cpus in a Quicksilver, I'm not really sure whether:

a) It will be significantly faster in normal use than a MDD 1.42Ghz considering the slower bus, slower ata controller (and maybe slightly slower RAM).
b) It will be supported by MorphOS (although on paper it sounds like it's just a souped up 7447).
c) It's worth the likely additional cost over a MDD 1.42GHz.

Personally, I still prefer the Powermac over the Mac Mini because of the expansion capability of the Powermac. With PCI expansion slots I can add a Soundblaster card (or other PCI expansion cards).
Also, I'd be willing to bet that a Quicksilver Powermac with a third party CPU upgrade would still be faster than a Mac Mini, even with the slower memory and hard drive interface. After all, a Quicksilver Powermac can be upgraded to a 2GHz 7448 (which cycle for cycle would outperform a 7447).

Quote:

After MorphOS is released with support for some of the G4 PowerMac models I will take a look at my finances and look for a great deal to purchase one of the supported G4 PowerMac models if the benchmarks show that it runs MorphOS significantly faster, or better (meaning it can use a better video card, better sound card, has better ethernet support), and perhaps I can run MacOSX & Linux on it taking advantage of 2 CPU's and more RAM than can be utilized with MorphOS. I would also want to save up more money to upgrade it to twin 1.8GHz G4 CPU's to max out it's potential while running MacOSX & Linux. For MorphOS the stock 1.42GHz speed should be more than enough.

The nice thing about having the G4 MacMini already running MorphOS2.4 is that it is easier to take with you than a big bulky PowerMac. With UFO-AI just ported to MorphOS (thank you again FAB) I could see some MorphOS users meeting each other at one persons house with their MorphOS computers to create a LAN to play the multiplayer game of UFO-AI. Another consideration in favor of the G4 MacMini is that I might be spending much more time traveling in my RV and the MacMini will take up much less space in the RV than a PowerMac would.

Do keep in mind MOS will ignore one CPU. So, for me I will work on getting more RAM (At least 1GB, hopefully 2GB) as my 1.5GHZ OC wrks very nicely, although if I see a DP 1.42 I will Pick it up. When 2.5 is released for PowerMac G4 I will hopeuflly have:

OS X Leopard
OS 9
MorphOS 2.5
Ubuntu/Debian Linux

And a larger drive than my 150Gb one currently, hoping for 320GB

> When 2.5 is released for PowerMac G4

We'll see.

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6925&forum=11&start=20#71408