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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:47 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »02.09.09 - 23:01
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Love it! Great hunting Velcro_SP! I don't know if this thread is usefull or not, but it's nice to see anyway. So, who's going to contact THTF for doing business? Genesi already had VERY bitter experiences with them, beware!
  • »03.09.09 - 06:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2065 from 2003/6/4
    @ Velcro_SP

    Nice findings. But the question remains: Will this product ever hit the market with a volume production? THTF are preseting it again and again, but as it seems is hasn't hit the stores yet.
    The other important question: What would it take to run MorphOS on these devices: Firmware? PowerVR driver? AXE library? Cache coherence management? These are all serious issues. Probably not undoable, but definitely not a "one rainy afternoon" thing.
    btw.: the color of the device in you linked picture - mutig!
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »03.09.09 - 07:09
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:38 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »03.09.09 - 07:18
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:38 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »03.09.09 - 07:38
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  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    My god. And I thought Apple-laptops were ghey
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »03.09.09 - 07:46
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:

    Will this product ever hit the market with a volume production?


    Why its web site is not updated? I believe that's an easier thing to do than actually building computers and selling them..

    Quote:

    What would it take to run MorphOS on these devices?


    Easy answer: The mighty MorphOS Team! And some development machines. And some development tools. And some development documentation...

    Quote:

    Firmware?


    As far as I know, MorphOS refuses to use any fancy function from the current OpenFirmware. It even gets killed very early, right after you see Quark's booting message...

    Quote:

    PowerVR driver?


    Sura, and that's information you won't get easiily, just like any other graphics hardware vendor. Berk! As BBRV said, "a PowerVR driver source is not generally available".

    Quote:

    AXE library?


    Being a freescale device, I think that information is readily available. Also, it looks as a simple device, compared to the PowerVR.

    Quote:

    Cache coherence management?


    That's a matter of how you write drivers, a software issue, a convention. Basically, you hce to assure that every data you send or receive to devices is not false, because it came from the cache. The convention is to mark device memory as non cacheable.

    Quote:

    definitely not a "one rainy afternoon" thing.


    Moreso, I wouldn't waste time adapting my operating system to a computer that's not readily available, not easy to work with, or with its manufacturer.
  • »03.09.09 - 07:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1214 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    My god. And I thought Apple-laptops were ghey


    i'd buy one if it features a "Hello Kitty" sticker.
  • »03.09.09 - 12:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Any alternate PPC hardware that could have MorphOS "easily???" ported to it would be a good thing for us, specially the first laptop that gets the distinction of running an Amiga-Like OS natively instead of running emulated.

    Please tell me that it comes in different colors though, that thing is UGLY!

    If it is slightly faster than my current Efika and could have better USB support (hopefully 2.0) and hold more than 128mb RAM, it could be a nice entry level MorphOS laptop, with all of our hopes still being that the MorphOS Dev Team will eventually complete a Mac PowerBook port after the MacMini port has been completed.

    Then anyone who wants to run MorphOS will have several price points and performance levels to choose from when looking for used and/or discontinued hardware. From the bottom of the pile of choices it might look something like this:

    A1200 w/Blizzard 603e PPC up to 275-300MHz over-clocked & 256mb RAM $???

    A4000 w/CyberStorm 604e PPC up to 233MHz & 128mb RAM $???

    Efika mainboard w/400MHz PPC SoC & 128mb RAM $99

    Pegasos1 (fill in the specs)

    Pegasos2 (fill in the specs)

    MacMini G4 PPC up to 1.5GHz & up to 1GB RAM approx. $150 to $350

    Hoped for the future =

    Mac 12" to 17" widescreen PowerBook G4 up to 1.7GHz & up to 2GB RAM approx. $250 to $1,000

    CherryPal/LimeBook/uBook (fill in specs and possible pricing)

    PPC Dreams of the future =

    Mac G4 iMac and PowerMac models

    MorphOS updated to take advantage of the G5 CPU and also utilize multiple CPU's so Dual G5 PowerMac models and G5 iMacs could be used some day.

    Really only a dream, as it would probably make more sense to port MorphOS to an architecture that is currently still in production, instead of putting that much more work into the dead Mac PPC line, but if they ever do the work, I would want one of those Dual 2.7, or Dual 3.0 G5 PowerMacs to run my MorphOS on. I would really like to see that some day, but know that it will probably never happen.

    A much different road map will emerge (at least I hope SOME kind of road map continues and that MorphOS will survive another decade in some fashion).
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.09.09 - 13:02
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    DrZarkov
    Posts: 142 from 2004/3/21
    From: Germany
    Yes it is ugly, but the colour should be a minor problem. For a few Euros they will paint it blue and stick a butterfly on it ;-) I wonder how much they would be imported to Europe, including all taxes and permissions like RoHs. If the price is comparable to a netbook this hardware is indeed very interesting. I would buy it.
  • »03.09.09 - 14:28
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:37 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »03.09.09 - 15:22
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    DrZarkov
    Posts: 142 from 2004/3/21
    From: Germany
    I should the Morphos team should check this hardware first, if it is a) suitable and if they b) share our optimism with getting a (small) market with it. The next step would be porting Morphos and to organise the import to Europe/USA. Maybe by the Morphos-people, or by an more or less independent and "red/blue neutral" company like Vesalia computer in Germany.

    BTW: I'm back, after selling my Pegasos II in 2005 I've got now a "new" Pegasos I with Morphos 2.x. I hope it will arrive tomorrow...
  • »03.09.09 - 16:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:55 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »03.09.09 - 19:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    IMHO it's better to go for Mac relases of MorphOS. Lime seems to be another low end machine vide efika which won't change too much.

    I'm not saying that Mac Mini is a powerful machine but at the moment it will be the best hardware available to run MorphOS (just after Pegasos II which is great machine.. that's a pity it was discontinued).

    [ Edited by pampers on 2009/9/3 23:07 ]
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »03.09.09 - 20:06
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    kickstart
    Posts: 227 from 2009/4/28
    From: Land of Santa
    For morphos macmini its a eurofighter.
  • »04.09.09 - 00:46
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    DrZarkov
    Posts: 142 from 2004/3/21
    From: Germany
    I prefer new hardware, and no leftovers from the bigger brother! Of course a Powerbook G4 is a good laptop, but MacOS X Tiger is a fine operating system for a Powerbook, too...
  • »04.09.09 - 05:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2065 from 2003/6/4
    Of course a G4 is playing another league than the 5121, and a 5121 will and should not repalce a G4. But a 5121 system *can* be dirt cheap (the chip istself costs less than 25 US$ in 10k quantity). It could be a nice toy - no high investement required and still usefull enough for some productive usage. Those who own an Efika do know what that system is able to do. And I must say, since the 2.3 release the Efika became a really nice system which only lacks some RAM, a faster usb and a faster IDE. All these things are given on the 5121, plus, the 5121 should be a tad faster since its L1 cache is double in size. Sure, there are other cheap, low energy chips out there, but they all have one serious drawback in the context of MorphOS - they are no ppc chips.
    So, if THTF gets its act together and rolls out the uBook in quantity (and better colors ;-) ) for an interesting price, it could be worthwile to evaluate a MorphOS port to hat platform IMHO. But it all depends on the MorphOS-Team, it is their decision to evaluate that system or not. Question is how much effort would a port be? And first and most important next step must be the release of the Mac mini version.I guess from that release it will depend whether MorphOS keeps its ultra niche as it has now (a couple of hundred users) or can expand the user base (to a few thousand users). If the user base after the mini release will not increase to at least the double of the current user base I think it will be pointless to go to other hardware anyway, then MorphOS will definitely keep on being this ultra ultra niche hobby OS. But i think MorphOS deserves better - and can better. There is potential to become a *bi*t wider spread hobby/home OS. No world domination, but a few (sic!) thousand users are a realic goal to reach with the Mini release IMHO.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »04.09.09 - 09:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12403 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the 5121 should be a tad faster since its L1 cache is double in size.

    ...and since it's superscalar, which the 5200B is not.
  • »26.09.09 - 09:04
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12403 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > LimePC [...] computers, one of which (two if you count the CherryPal
    > Bing) was rebranded "CherryPal" for sale in certain markets

    Albeit probably rebranded, the Intel Atom based Bing definitely didn't have anything to do with LimePC.

    > These are devices based on the Freescale 5121e, which is a
    > (stronger) sister to the Efika

    ...'s 5200B ;-)
  • »26.09.09 - 09:55
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bbrv
    Posts: 750 from 2003/2/14
    From: Earth
    Have a look:

    http://www.carbonflow.com/about_carbonflow.php

    Without Max there is no Cherrypal. Just reading the bio ought to finally convince most of you that Cherrypal and its products are finished. The whole Green Maraschino concept was a PowerDeveloper/MorphZone rip-off. From one of the Founders and former Directors we know that less than $150K in financing was raised though $5MM in equity placements are claimed by Max. Max also represented to his new employers that $10MM Cherrypal in sales were achieved. The fact is less than 500 units were sold and many less were actually delivered. He probably won't be the CEO of Carbonflow much longer. There is no sense in hoping that a 5121e based consumer product that provides a desktop environment will ever come to market.
  • »26.09.09 - 10:47
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:50 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »02.10.09 - 19:06
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:42 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »02.10.09 - 19:21
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12403 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > some of the LimePC UBooks are Atom-based, so if that's your logic
    > for your conclusion that the Bing can't be a rebranded LimePC, it's
    > erroneous.

    You are right in this. I stand corrected, thanks.

    > You're not living up to your reputation as the link master.

    I'll catch up on this ;-)

    http://www.limepc.com/bookp10a.shtml seems to be the Atom based LimeBook that Cherrypal were going to rebrand as "Bing".

    > And wow, "probably rebranded?" You're really going out on a limb
    > there. After all, there's at least at 0.00000014 percent chance Max
    > Seybold is running a motherboard fabrication press and plastic mill
    > out of his apartment. Consider being more cautious in your
    > statements, eh?

    You don't need to run your own "motherboard fabrication press and plastic mill" to sell your own non-rebranded netbook. There are companies out there which you can pay for doing the manufacturing side of things for you. That really wouldn't count as rebranding in my book.

    > I'm well aware that the Efika is based on the 5200B

    I'm aware that you're aware. The reason I added the "'s 5200B" was just that in your sentence you were comparing a CPU to a mainboard whereas you really wanted to compare two CPUs, I guess.

    > which requires a gfx card.

    Yes, the Efika 5200B requires a gfx card. But a mainboard with MPC5200B wouldn't necessarily require a gfx card, namely if it has an onboard gfx chip.

    > As I am that the device Genesi once announced was NOT a 5200B, as
    > it had onboard gfx.

    Why should onboard gfx mean that the CPU couldn't be MPC5200B? What about a mainboard with MPC5200B and an onboard gfx chip? In fact, Genesi once announced exactly that (MPC5200B plus onboard Volari gfx chip), and you very well know that fact. At least you would if you read and understood what I wrote.

    > And if you look back in these threads

    Which I did.

    > you will see me originally discussing the device as one with
    > onboard gfx

    You're still playing dumb, right? In said thread, you were originally discussing a fantasy and not even announced nor planned Genesi device with both MPC5121e and onboard Volari gfx (which would result in two redundant onboard 2D/3D gfx cores). Is it that you simply cannot grasp the fact that there were plans/announcements by Genesi for an MPC5200B based device with onboard Volari gfx chip as well as later plans/announcements by Genesi for an MPC5121e (with on-chip PowerVR gfx included) based device, but *no* plan/announcement for your fantasy device?

    > hence not the 5200B.

    This conclusion is pure nonsense. See above.
    Why do you think that MPC5200B plus onboard gfx chip is impossible when you at the same time fantasize about MPC5121e plus redundant onboard gfx chip? Care to explain this "logic"?

    > The CherryPal is different from the 5200B.

    Yes, a computer is definitely different from a CPU.

    > It's better.

    If you mean that the C114('s mainboard) is better than the Efika 5200B or that the MPC5121e is better than the MPC5200B, I'm completely with you.

    > Granny's comment the last time (or was it the time before last?)
    > you mischaracterized me was right in its generalities.

    No, it was not. See my reply to his comment. Furthermore, I don't think I mischaracterized you.

    > But I think it was incorrect that the device Genesi worked with and
    > announced that became the CherryPal was based on the 5200B.

    He didn't state anything like that. His comment wasn't about the device that became the Cherrypal C114.

    > Agreeing with Granny on one point does not mean I agree with
    > everything he says or that we had the same breakfast that morning.

    In my book, citing a certain part of someone's posting that states alleged factual information (as opposed to pure opinion) and answering that part with "thanks" clearly classifies as agreeing with all alleged factual information he stated in that very part.
  • »04.10.09 - 01:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12403 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If he fell short, he fell short.

    His bio at the Carbonflow website BBRV linked to didn't read exactly that way ;-)

    > He'll be back.

    For now, his bio was taken off.

    Google cache:
    http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:www.carbonflow.com/about_carbonflow.php
    http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:www.carbonflow.com/files/MSeyboldJoinsCarbonflow.doc
  • »04.10.09 - 02:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:41 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »04.10.09 - 09:30
    Profile