Hello fellow EFIKA owners!

I have a quick question for all of you, how much RAM do your EFIKA's show remaining free after you first boot up?

I usually have around 72-73mb left after booting and I don't think I have anything added to my WB-Startup drawer, but there is some kind of sound mixer in there that a friend might have installed when he was playing with my system at the AmiWest show.

I want to start programming on my EFIKA, which will eventually lead to some new applications or games for MOS, or it will lead to me working with others on their projects. With this in mind I am also very interested in any news about the possibility to add an extra 128mb of RAM to the EFIKA's bottom side where the solder pads have been provided. Do any of you have any new information about this possibility?

I am afraid that the small amount of RAM on the EFIKA is going to be a problem when I start compiling programs of any considerable size.

Also, on a side note, my Sputnik browser has just recently stopped working and I can't figure out why. IBrowse2.4 still works just fine, but Sputnik will not start up at all. When I click on it, there is a momentary spike in the system monitor to approx. 80% CPU usage for only a fraction of a second and then it goes back down to 5%-10% depending on what I have open.

I have never used any kind of SnoopDOS program, but I think I am going to have to start if I am going to figure out what is going on.

Is there a way to reinstall just my Sputnik program, do the programmers of it have a separate website? I guess I will go looking right now.

Edit: Found the site and I am downloading it now to do a re-install.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2008/11/28 1:04 ]

The RAM you have left after booting is the same on my Efika - it's just how much it takes to load the Ambient, icons, fonts, USB stack, TCP/IP etc. So this is basically what you get - you are left with roughly 74MB. I never managed to get more after normal boot (with no extra programs loaded at startup) and with ramdebugsize=0 option.

As to Sputnik, I bet you added some Bookmarks for quick access and there were more than two? It's a really stupid bug in Sputnik (amongst many others) that prevents the program from loading when you have added more than two Bookmarks (or maybe was it three, don't remember). The only solution to get it running again is to delete the file "Core.cfg" located in SYS:Applications/Sputnik/HTML (or wherever you have Sputnik installed) or to change that filename to something else, like "Core.old" for example. Sputnik will run, but you'll end up with empty Bookmark list, so don't add more than two until this annoying bug it's fixed. There may be some other problems with this configuration file (when you change some fonts for example). So basically, if your Sputnik doesn't start, delete the file "Core.cfg" and it will be created again automatically (with settings reset to default).

Hope that helps.

Thanks Skipp604,

But in the time you took to write that, I had already
gone and downloaded, extracted and replaced the whole
Sputnik4 Beta install and it is working again now.

Do you know how to enable text wrapping to the next
line on sites like this one in the Sputnik browser?

It is annoying to keep hitting the return key in this
little text entry window that you get on most forums
and websites.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2008/11/28 1:31 ]

That's too bad. I would just re-install (that means just copy) the Sputnik dir from the MorphOS 2.1 ISO. Why use older beta?

As to text wrapping - seems like it's, well, unimplemented yet :) Not in this version, anyway. So - we just have to wait for the new version with all these annoying bugs fixed...



[ Edited by skipp604 on 2008/11/28 9:36 ]

Unfortunatly there is now way of expanding the efika memory usage, but there are a few tricks you can save some:

Use "rd rds 1" in OpenFirmware boot-file argument to set ramdebug to the minimum size. This will free some MB.

Reducing the Ambient screen depth and resolution. 16 bit should be enough. Changing the resolution to a non native screen resolution isn't a good solution, but may help if you want to launch a huge game.

Removing screen and window brackdrops from Ambients configuration is saving loads of memory.

Running all applications on Ambient screen instead of opening more screens is another method of saving memory.

If you want to launch a game e.g. Robin Hood or Quake II it may be useful to avoid launching Ambient at all.

Geit

Hi skipp604,



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I assume you mean the fastlinks.

Well, here I have 7 entries and they are working as expected - no problems with Sputnik.
But as I have added them all at once I can't say whether the problem occurs when you are using exactly 2 (or 3 entries).


Bye HAK

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Well, no one has done it yet, but unless there is something in the firmware to prevent it (which I doubt), or something in MorphOS2.1 "EFIKA" version to prevent it, (again, which I doubt), then it should be able to add another 128mb of RAM to the underside of the EFIKA exactly where the board was designed to accept additional RAM. The manufacturer offers to add RAM if a minimum number of boards are ordered that way, so it is possible, it is just that no one other than the manufacturer knows what needs to be done to make it work. It is a real shame that the initial run of EFIKA boards were not produced with at least 256mb of RAM installed, but I can imagine that they were unsure about the response to the board and how many they would sell, so they wanted to keep their investment to a minimum. Someone will eventually learn how to expand the memory on the EFIKA just as the manufacturer intended and you will see someone with the soldering skills offer to expand all the 128mb EFIKAs out there like mine to 256mb, or it's maximum 512mb of RAM. Frankly, I am surprised that it has not already been offered by the manufacturer, or someone else already. Unfortunately, it is probably true that those with the skill to figure it out, have little or no motivation to do so, as they do not own an EFIKA, they probably have a Pegasos2, or are not interested in MorphOS at all, so they do not care about our limited RAM problems. I can't figure out why the manufacturer/distributor is not offering such a service, unless they are close to releasing a better board and want all EFIKA owners to give up on their limited toy computer and buy their better EFIKA/Pegasos successor, what ever it's name may be. I am afraid that they may have lost interest in the MorphOS team and users because of the talk about releasing MorphOS for the Mac Mini G4. If they cannot produce a next step in the Pegasos/EFIKA line of computers that is at least as powerful and useful as a used G4 Mac Mini at a lower price, or a computer that is significantly better than the G4 Mac Mini at a similar price, why would they bother, unless there is a market for their board in the embedded and Linux markets that will justify enough sales to cover their development costs. Nobody knows how many EFIKA boards have been sold, but if they are not being sold to the embedded market, the few that have been sold to the MorphOS users like me have not made even a small dent in their development costs.

I am afraid that there will never be new MorphOS mobo produced, because the user base is just too small to recoup development costs. Unless the users or the MorphOS team themselves find the talent to create their own design and make a small production run, but that will be costly and will probably lead to a result even more expensive than the SAM440ep was for the OS4 crowd. I am not saying it is impossible for the user base, or MOS team to create a new mobo design and get it produced, just look at the GBA1000 mobo that many people marvel at and wonder how it could be done, but a new MOS mobo would be an order of magnitude or two beyond what was accomplished with the GBA1000 (I am in the group that bought one and is proceeding to put one together).

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Thanks for all the tips, I will keep them in mind, but doubt they will free up enough RAM for my purpose, as I wish to do some programming on my EFIKA and compiling large files may crash it due to lack of memory.

I won't have to worry about it for a while as I am just starting out and have much to learn first, but by the time I need a solution, I hope someone has cracked the problem and there is a way to add at least another 128mb of RAM easily, or send my EFIKA out to someone to have it converted to 512mb of RAM.

I think I will attempt to contact B-Plan myself and inquire about how I can add memory to my EFIKA, or if they will do it for me for a fee. One way or another, I am determined to get at least 256mb of memory working on my EFIKA, and hopefully someday 512mb of RAM. That should keep me happy until there is a much better solution to run MorphOS on (I know that we all are hoping to have MOS on a MacMini soon, but all reports so far indicate that it will take a lot of time and there is no projected release date).

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I might be wrong, but I think it might be the limitation of the Efika's OpenFirmware. It might also be the reason why OF (or is it Quark?) can't recognize the graphics card's memory above 128MB...

BTW does MorphOS 2.x on Pegasos see the full RAM of the gfx card or the limitation of 128MB is present there, too?

@skipp604

Well, AFAIR on Pegasos there's the same gfx limitation of 128MB as on Efika unfortunately. IIRC I've read about it somewhere on PPA. Too bad, maybe in the near future it'll change somehow.
Right now I've been waiting for the Mac Mini version. Let's hope it'll be released soon.

that was at least one attempt to add more memory to efika board by Painkiller
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5377&forum=2#59634
and that was unlucky attempt

but no one try to remove the 2 original memory chips and replace them with others with twice the memory capacity, like someone do with asus routers:
http://wl500g.info/showthread.php?t=12962
yes, it's not an efika, and yes, it's need changes in firmware to work too
but it's work with asus

[ Edited by r1vver on 2008/12/1 17:56 ]

83 MB here.

Managed to have a little more than 85Mb but with too much trade off (small screen, 16bit depth, little disk cache, no net, nothing in fact!).

Common freemem at start : 80Mb.

I hope we will soon have some swap just in case to save us from out of physical memory scenario.

And about replacing memory chip in Efika : heavily discussed in another thread here. It seems that the reference design of the board might be realased sometime in the future (source : powerdeveloper.org / R&B). This will certainly help to expand memory of the Efika. 512Mb? Woo!

Czk

Doesn't really matter wheter you get the blueprints
or not, when the firmware can't handle it. Does it?

About 80MB here, with all activated. I'd suggest to use the Mahalaxmi skin and the associated MUI prefs (from the MUI prefs All settings -> Presets -> skin: Mahalaxmi). this gives a bit more free mem and a lot more responsie system.
It doesn't look bad, either.

Kind regards,
Andrea

Well, I haven't seen a single person write that they have a concrete answer about the Open Firmware NOT working with more memory, it is just that no one knows how to add the memory YET!

The graphics card memory limitation has been well documented and discussed, but that is a completely different matter. The Pegasos can use more memory than an EFIKA while running MorphOS, so it is clear that it is not a limitation of the OS.

I am sure it will happen, sooner or later. I just wish B-Plan would release the information. It would go a long way toward improving their customer relations and increasing customer loyalty towards purchasing their next MorphOS capable design. It is silly to think that any EFIKA owner is going to purchase another EFIKA from another production run just to get one with 512mb of RAM, so why not release the information that will allow us to expand our RAM to it's maximum amount. Then our computers will be more useful and other potential users will be more likely to buy any remaining stock of 128mb RAM EFIKA boards, if they know that the information is out there to expand to 256mb, or 512mb of RAM.

Then, if MorphOS is not released for the MacMini for a long time, others interested in MorphOS will be more likely to purchase a second production run of EFIKA's, hopefully the second run will include 512mb RAM from the factory.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

I have sent a request to B-Plan asking them to provide me with a quote for adding another 128mb of RAM to my EFIKA, AND a second quote for removing the existing 128mb and replacing it with 512mb of RAM.

I suggest that every owner of an EFIKA do the same, to show them that there is a demand (no matter how small) for such a service. If the rest of you reading this that do not have EFIKAs want to join with us owners and send a request as well, that is fine with me, the more requests sent the better.

I also asked them to provide me with a name of a location where the work could be done if they do not, or will not perform it themselves, or at the least to provide information so that I could do it myself.

I may not get any response, but at least I tried. Nothing every happens if no one tries to do it, so please join me in this attempt to get some answers from B-Plan and maybe we can hasten getting an answer on how to add more memory to our EFIKAs.

Another related question:

When MorphOS2.1 is loading on your EFIKA, at the Butterfly screen, what amount of memory is shown for your EFIKA?

Mine shows a 396MHz CPU and 101mb RAM, and since some of you are getting 80mb to 85mb of free RAM after bootup and I am only getting 72mb-73mb, I am now wondering if maybe I have some defective RAM.

Is there another way to test my RAM like the many programs on an Amiga that could do so?

It is bad enough that EFIKA's only have 128mb of RAM, but I would want to return my EFIKA under warranty for a replacement if mine has any defective RAM giving me less than the installed 128mb.

Probably not the case, but I thought I should ask, just in case.

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It is not possible. Please do not try this.

bplan offers custom board reworks for large customers - the "up to 512MB" is a hint to people who want to buy 1000 boards, not so they can remodel a single board for you by hand.

Please do not make your Efika "take" 256MB RAM - it will not work, simply, because the PCB you have cannot take more than two 512Mbit chips.

@amgiadave

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MorphOS reports free RAM, not installed RAM, at the boot picture. Amount of free ram after bootup depends on display mode, filesystem caches and so on.

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Been there done that. It wont work I tried contacting bplan etc. but simply soldering more ram under the board wont cut it.

Just wait for MOS to be released on Mac Mini. It is a whole lot better system than Efika.

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So you are saying that my EFIKA pcb itself, not the components placed on it, is manufactured differently than the pcb's for an EFIKA capable of 512mb RAM. That sounds crazy, and I won't believe that until it is proven!

No where in any of my messages did I say I was going to try to add memory to my EFIKA without proper documentation on how to do it. Given the fine pitch of the memory chips, I would prefer to just send it out to b-plan, or a third party that has the documentation from b-plan, to have it done, as the soldering is difficult to do without the proper tools.

Saying it is impossible just because b-plan or genesi does not wish to disclose the information on how it is done is like saying that it is impossible for MorphOS to run on a MacMini, just because the MOS team has not released it yet and does not want to tell anyone how to do it. It is possible as it has been demonstrated. The EFIKA is capable of using up to 512mb of RAM, as it was designed to do so. If a few components need to be replaced to make it work, then the cost to do so would have to be weighed against the benefit it would provide and the other alternatives available (such as MorphOS on the MacMini, when/if it is ever released).

Saying the EFIKA is not worth the effort and everyone should just wait until MorphOS is released for the MacMini is also stupid and wasteful. Why should I not try to get the most and best use from the EFIKA computer I already have in my hands? I am not alone in this, there are many EFIKA owners that would like to upgrade their EFIKA to 256mb, or 512mb of RAM if it were possible at a reasonable price.

I am neither naive about my chances of getting what I want from b-plan, or crazy with my money to spend too much just to double, or quadruple my EFIKA memory, but why not at least try?

I don't understand all the negative energy being expended to try to tell me I am wasting my time. Us Amiga users are used to fighting for what we need and want and waiting long periods of time to get them. Even after MorphOS is released for the MacMini (and hopefully a few other G4 Mac models like the iBook and PowerBook), I will still want to make my EFIKA more usable, either for myself, or to the person that I sell it to. Also, if the upgrade were known, or provided by b-plan or a third party, it would be a great benefit to the MorphOS community, as it would be easier for new users to join us at a low cost, instead of turning to the SAM440ep and pursuing the AmigaOS4.x direction.

I won't be able to sell my EFIKA for hardly anything if it is not made more useful than it is today. Where are all the other EFIKA owners to support me and what I am trying to find out, that need more memory too?

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Have you checked who is this "Neko" you are replying to?

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The existing Efika not. Genesi/bPlan would produce a different mainboard that would accept extra memory, if someone buys a lot of them. I don't recall Genesi saying that the Efika is upgradeable.

You might be guessing from the PC side of things, that make a substantial effort to accept lots of variations about its memory. But the Efika is no PC.

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You might want to search for a thread here, in which someone took the time, effort and adequate equipment to attempt a modification in his Efika. It didn't work.

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Read the MPC5200B manual, SDRAM controller section. The pads on the board - I believe - connect 16-bit lines from each module, to the 32-bit controller (this is the standard way to do it on the MPC5200B) and there are two chip selects available for SDRAM..

The way I see it (and I have the schematics), adding 4 modules means connecting 4x 8-bit lines to the 32-bit controller and using the second chip select. The traces simply do not support this configuration. You need to add resistors etc. in places you can't get to and somehow escape a pin that's not escaped in the design.

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They won't do it. Not unless you order 1000 boards, anyway.

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Let's put it this way; it's as impossible for MorphOS to run on a Hewlett Packard HP-28C calculator as it is to MANUALLY modify an Efika to use 512MB.

You may be able to solder on new chips to support more RAM using the top solder pads (after desoldering the old ones) but finding ones with the correct specifications that are verified to work with the MPC5200B, and then hacking the firmware to do it, is beyond most people on this forum. Even then it is not guaranteed to work.

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No, it was not. It was designed to take 128MB because 512MB was cost prohibitive. The MPC5200B has been verified to use certain sizes of RAM in certain configurations with certain settings. The official line from bplan is that adding more memory requires a small board rework and sourcing new RAM chips and the minimum order is somewhere between 300 and 1000 (depending on the price per unit you wish to pay). It is not because they don't want you to try, it is because the design cannot support what you want to do to it.

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You really don't get it..

You can't, it's as simple as that.


[ Edited by Neko on 2008/12/2 18:56 ]

Maybe I don't get it because no one from bplan has stated that it can't be done! You seem to know what you are writing about, so I will give you a lot of credit, but you are not an engineer from bplan.

Neko wrote:

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This is the first time I have seen anyone write about the details of why adding more memory is physically impossible due to missing traces to the memory controller, so thanks for pointing out exactly what you think the problem is. But answer this: If the pcb was designed for only two chips of RAM as you say, why did they add the RAM solder pads to the bottom of it? What are the traces from the solder pads at the bottom of the EFIKA connected to? I mean if they intentionally left out the memory traces, why not leave out the RAM chip solder pads too?

You are probably right in how you have read the manual and schematics, but it sure would be more believable if an engineer from bplan would confirm what you have just written.

Not that I want to piss you off or anything like that, but I will continue trying to contact someone at bplan to clear up exactly what is possible and what is not possible with the EFIKA pcbs that have already been produced and sold.

Maybe as you imply, it might be possible to increase the RAM by removing the 128mb of existing RAM and replace it with 256mb if the correct chips can be found. That would be better than doing nothing.

As for what bplan will and will not do, unless you have information directly from them, other than their statement that they want a minimum number of 300 - 1000 units to produce EFIKAs with 512mb of RAM, I would rather hear directly from them.

Again I ask, why am I being met with such negativity and now hostility. When did it become a crime to ask questions and try to find better answers to problems? A simple answer of "no it can't be done and here is why" would have been sufficient. When the why is not clear or complete, then people should expect it to be questioned.

I am starting to feel like the bad guy just for asking questions and wanting to have more memory on my EFIKA. Give me a break!

@ amigadave

Well, Neko has quite some expertise in this field. He's responsible for developer relations at Genesi. And while bplan and Genesi are still two companies they are also tied quite close together.
Neko really knows of what he's talking when speaking about the Efika.
He answered you quite detailed.
In essence: There is no way to upgrade existing Efikas other than finding electrically and physically compatiblle RAM chips that would replace the both existing ones. And still it would be some kind of lottery and require additional work in the firmware.

About your hostility feelings: I guess there aren't any. Only that most of 'us old morphers' may have the feeling of a way too often experienced 'been there, done that-feeling' (in one or the other way) and thus are not overwhelmed by those approaches. But that shouldn't stop you in general. New arrivals bring some fresh air, some momentum. I guess most ppl appreciate your enthusiasm.
But about the RAM upgrade, as much as I would appreciate that, I doubt it is feasible. I wouldn't waste my energy on it.