Hi guys,

I read here.
Quote:

So, the 2.5 is using a 7447A? Well, that's not a step forward, I'd say.

Anyhow, I came here to ask about what the 2.5 exactly is, and also the Peg III. (There's no need for secrecy, see below.)


IF AOS4.0 is ported over, and there's a 1.8+ GHz G4 (obviously, not 7447A) or G5 coming out, I am most interested, as Eyetech don't seem to be in "Build it and they will come" mode, at all.

I want a next gen system, and Eyetech aren't doing anything, or so it seems.

Anyhow, that would only be, if AOS4.0 (an OFFICIAL version) is available AND Eyetech don't make the XC.


So, Acill, you have 1 Pegasos buyer here, if you can get that project going.


I am strictly looking for new fast HW, I have no interest whatsoever in MorphOS.

I don't think AOS will come out for a Pegasos, bplan is not willing to implement the uboot BIOS thingie in Pegasos (why should they). So you have to ask Hyperion to Remove their uboot/copy protection from AOS.

Quote:

Or just port OS4 to OpenFirmware.

Atheist:

Pegasos2.5 is PegasosII with upgraded northbridge and cpu card (and adapted for multicore cpus)
PegasosIII seems to be based on different northbridge (Tundra Tsi108).

More info http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=en&nid=1076&si=1 and more will come later.

The Uboot BIOS has nothing to do with Copy Protection, it's just the BIOS the AmigaOne uses. The copy protection scheme is another thing (a ROM with a serial or something like that iirc).
Noone is asking noone to implement anything, You apparently missed the fact that Acill has emailed Amiga Inc for an OS4 licence and is willing to pay up to a specific amount of money for an AmigaOS port (if they do not ask anything unreasonably high, as he won't make any money out of this).

I thought the copy protection was somehow implemented into this uboot thingie...well maybe then i learned something this morning

But as far as i know Pegasos is (partly) not able to run AOS 4 because the Amiga Copy Protection sceme is not supported.

[ Edited by Donar on 2005/5/7 12:29 ]

It would technically be the case had the 2 systems used the same BIOS but it isn't. Anyway, there's no reason for which OS4 is not supported apart from the lack of a port and an AmigaOS licence. No technical reason whatsoever not to be possible.

>So, the 2.5 is using a 7447A? Well, that's not a
>step forward, I'd say.

The "Pegasos 2.5" (which seems to be only some
funny name chosen by Gerald Carda; I guess the
next Pegasos will be 33 1/3) is "just" a
reference design for Freescale. It's not an
enduser board.

It has a new northbrdige (Discovery III) which
has 166MHz FSB and supports DDR400 memory.

Also it uses PCI-X (3? slots) and has 4(?) SATA
ports, USB, and 2x Ethernet (maybe both GigE).

As CPU it cannot only use 7447A but also
7448/e600 CPUs.

As written above it's not an enduser board.

I guess real information about new customer
products will be revealed at the Freescale Tech
Forum at the end of June.

Quote:

That's not a good comparision, they are pluggin a new CPU into an old motherboard and oddly enough it isn't as fast.

Plugging a new CPU into a new motherboard is a different matter.

[quote]
Atheist wrote:
Hi guys,

I read here.
[quote]From the tests we have performed to date with the 133MHz bus AGP equipped Power Macs, we have determined the performance of a 7447A processor running at 1.733GHz to be equivalent to that of a 7455 running at 1.467GHz. The 7447A does not support an L3 cache, and in most applications requiring a heavy CPU load this has a big impact on performance. Our recent dual 7455 based MDD upgrade (running at 1.42GHz in a 167MHz bus MDD or 1.4GHz in a 133MHz bus MDD) offers a better overall value at $629 when compared with a dual 7447A running at 1.733GHz which we would need to sell at $799 based on our current 7447A chip pricing.


So, the 2.5 is using a 7447A? Well, that's not a step forward, I'd say.

Anyhow, I came here to ask about what the 2.5 exactly is, and also the Peg III. (There's no need for secrecy, see below.)


IF AOS4.0 is ported over, and there's a 1.8+ GHz G4 (obviously, not 7447A) or G5 coming out, I am most interested, as Eyetech don't seem to be in "Build it and they will come" mode, at all.

I want a next gen system, and Eyetech aren't doing anything, or so it seems.

Anyhow, that would only be, if AOS4.0 (an OFFICIAL version) is available AND Eyetech don't make the XC.


So, Acill, you have 1 Pegasos buyer here, if you can get that project going.


I am strictly looking for new fast HW, I have no interest whatsoever in MorphOS.[/quote]


All the trolling you did put aside, I am working the issue but remember Eyetech does not make the boards, they buy them and rebadge them from Mai. The same type of things they did for all the other hardware they sold in the past for the classics. They havent upgraded the hardware because Mai cant pay to get new stuff made. Research Mai and the trooubles they are having and it will be made a lot more clear to you. This is not a troll, I just wanted you to understand why things are so slow moving.

As for getting OS4 to the Pegasos. Its starting to look like it will not happen. Eyetech is a major problem from what I understand. Basicly if OS4 were to move over to the Pegasos it would put them out of the A1 busisnes, who in there right mind would buy a new A1 to run OS4 when they can get faster, better and leser priced machines. I am not for helping a small company survive. If they do not have the means to compete and keep alive then they are out, thats how life is. Why hold the advancement of the system back like that? It makes no sence at all to me. This is the trouble I face in this venture, still waiting to hear back as well, its been over a week now.

[ Edited by Acill on 2005/5/7 5:30 ]

Even if we don't consider the Firmware problem, the money problem, and the licence problem, how can you imagine an official Pegasos OS4 version as long as the Frieden brothers are the men behind OS4 and R. Schmidt is at BPlan/MOS/Genesi ?!

Not that I have something against any of the above people... But they do seem to have a problem between them :)

As long as the guys at the head of both "camps" can bear each other there's no way to make it happen. Just buy a peg if you want MOS (as a PUP version is very unlikely to happen) or an AOne/Amiga+PPC if you want OS4.

Leo.

Perhaps I am only adding to the confusion here, but it seems like the "Pegasos 2.5" is indeed a developers board which bplan uses for testing purposes in their design work. The next upcoming hardware for end-users is said to be based on the Tundra northbridge and be built with the upcoming Freesdale Dual Core CPU's in mind. I think that can be very interesting!

I am looking forward to hear more about this!

Atheist - I think you can be sure this hardware will *ROCK* compared to any old 7455 CPU you can dig up!

There is no problem with the firmware, the Friedens have stated that OS4 could quite easily be adopted to OF (and if you should pay any attention to the rumours, OS4 *is already running* on the Pegasos2 in an, let's say, "unofficial" form). I can't really see any problems with Ralph Schmidt either, the Pegasos does not come with any EULA (it's open hardware in that sense), and if anyone wants to sell OS4 for the Pegasos 2 then there would be very little he could do about it (if anything), even if he wanted to.

The biggest problem would probably be to getting it licensed from Amiga Inc. That might be the showstopper. We'll see how Acill will manage ...

Quote:

Then why come to MorphZone? Maybe Pegasos.org would have been better...

If you are just looking for just faster HW, I'd recommend you to get some 3GHz PeZee with 500W power supply. U want AmigaOS? Then run Amithlon on it. Isn't it easy?

Quote:.
Apart from the fact that the comparison comes from someone who's got some interests (they've got to sell those dual 7455 cards, after all!), Freescale themselves wouldn't agree. Not to mention the 7447A use a whole lot less power while running at the same speed of the 7455. And finally, the 7447A is the faster CPU card that should be available soon for the existing PegasosII boards, not for future boards! (check also here ).
Quote:
The codenamed Pegasos 2.5 is a development board, based on the Marvell Discovery III northbridge (200MHz FSB, 400MHz DDR, and more) and a MPC7448 CPU. It's still unknown if it will make to a commercial product or will only be a developers board - remember, Genesi said that their best seller will probably be another design, not that they won't sell this one too! A future commercial product will be, however, based on the Tundra northbridge. More informations should follow later in June during the Freescale tech forum.
Quote:
And, just like most people with closed mindsets, you don't know what you're missing. And that's bad for you, not for us!

Kind regards,
Andrea

Quote:

A petition probably wouldn't get far eh?

If such petition would be organized
by the staff and users of AW.net it
might have some impact ...

Quote:

How? You're forgetting that the eternal problem are Amiga Inc. And regarding OS4 for the Pegasos, Acill has been even ready to pay Hyperion's porting costs from his own pocket - but I'm very certain he still didn't get any reply from AI...

Two reasons OS4 isn't coming;

1) Friedens are stubborn and will find a person not to like in order to not do the port. They have no financial imperitive to do the AmigaOne port, so "more sales" doesn't mean anything to them.

2) License for OS4 has been specifically designed to protect the AmigaOne by charging hardware manufacturers regardless of the OS running on the board, and/or restricting it to high-end resellers who have "a storefront". They know fullwell there isn't an Amiga or Pegasos reseller on the planet with a storefront.

How is Acill going to support OS4 on Pegasos?
He can't by the terms. And even if he paid up, how would he force Amiga to do the port?

Neko

@Senex

It won't hurt to ask.

@Robin
I'll see what I can do, and like I said to Senex, it won't hurt to ask

@Neko
Like I've just said, It won't hurt to ask.

http://www.petitiononline.com/

might be a good place to start

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?StopAsh
this one is my favorite

[ Edited by poundsmack on 2005/5/8 7:44 ]

@Bodie_C15

While I remain skeptical (like the rest of the folks here), I'll have to "officially" take your side on this one -- because I've long since learned to NEVER say NEVER!

If by some strange alignment in the stars occurs with a fullmoon and a port appears, I'll open up an "OS4 on Pegasos" section here. If AW.net does a poll for it, I'll even link to it from the frontpage. Not that I expect it to happen; I just will not count it out.

Besides, Bodie just gave me another excuse to use another of my father's quotes: "Until you ask, the answer can only be 'no.'"

"if you dont bother to ask they have no right ot tell you you were not allowed to do it. after all since you didnt ask they they never told you no"

-poundsmack


[ Edited by poundsmack on 2005/5/8 8:04 ]

I have spoken last year to the Freiden brothers and they told me that they have no problem with a Pegasos Port, and that they would do one. But i think thy would like to do the Port, but AInc. or Eyetech don't want that!

@ThePlayer

You know that "words are cheap", and even more if one has allready taken etensive care that he never has to eat them......

Quote:

I don't know about the AW.net site admins, but at least *I* did a poll at AW.net a month ago, asking the question whether they thought porting OS4 to the Pegasos would be a good thing for OS4, and some 300 community members participated:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11602&forum=3

These things does not hold any scientific value of course, but at least it gave a hunch about peoples opinions, especially for those who attached some comments to their votes. And I was actually surprised by the fact that close to three quarters of the votes was in favour of the idea of OS4 running on the Pegasos. I expected only some 10-20 percent (top) would vote "yes", taking in mind where the poll was posted, but in the end a staggering 72% (217 people) favoured this idea (and I suspect that quite a few that voted "No" did it because of their personal feelings for BBRV/Genesi, or simply because *they* would not buy a Pegasos personally, despite the fact that this was not what was being asked).

But the discussion that followed was perhaps more interesting than the poll itself. Many peoples opinions were vented (which practically is a todo list of things to address -if- a thing like this was to happen), and also some new (at least to me) facts was revealed.

Having OS4 running on the Pegasos would mean:
-that I personally would continue using MorphOS (of course), since I really like it a lot
-that I personally would get OS4 as well
-that many other people (great developers as well) would do the same (running both OS's on the same computer)
-this would in turn help uniting the developer community again, which would be good for both OS's. This would be the main thing!

The downsides of this would IMHO be:
-... eh, NONE! No, not even "competition" etc (see what I wrote about different markets in that poll-thread.)

But I feel that even discussing this is pointless, since I don't think it will ever happen.

I wish Acill the best of luck in his endevours, and I would perhaps even be willing to support the effort in some way. Acill is certainly not the first one trying this, but he may be the last one.