@Motosampy:
thanks for explanations! I suspect my card is not that good and I guess I will try. I even noticed thata transfer speed is 1.8 mb/second... I don't think this is a correct value, or not?!? Any tip/explanation about flashing will be really appreciated!

>>> why flashing bios of sata card? This card work flawless with Pegasos II
>>> and I remember I read a "Fixed SATA cards support on PowerMacs." in the 3-0
>>> releases note. Nothing about a mac bios. Am I missing something?

>> With a PPC Mac ROM on the card it doesn't only just work in a PowerMac
>> (which it didn't before the fix)..

> Of course it did, you just couldn't boot from it.

No, it didn't work with MorphOS before the fix. See Motosampy's posting and that thread:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7445&forum=11

> Ask Kronos, he's been using one longer then anyone else (w/o Mac firmware).

He confirmed that it didn't work with MorphOS:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8426&forum=11&start=10

About transfer speed: when I copy from one partition to another in the same disk Ambient transfer window reports 30-33 Mb/s , copying a directory total of 228Mb in 64 files to ram takes 4.4 seconds - Ambient reporting speed upto 57 Mb/s (FW800 G4/1.42GHz)

> Considering the transfer rate limitations of PCI (which I'm sure Andres can quote), there
> is little advantage using an SATA controller over the MDD's built-in ATA100 controller.

The theoretical limits are as follows:

- ATA100: 100 MB/s
- PCI 32-bit 33 MHz: 133 MB/s
- SATA1: 150 MB/s
- PCI 64-bit 33 MHz: 266 MB/s
- SATA2: 300 MB/s

According to these numbers, using a SATA controller card (even SATA2) over the on-board ATA100 controller should make sense, in theory at least.

Edit: Differentiated between 32-bit and 64-bit PCI.
The conclusion is, as far as I can see, that a 32-bit SATA card (133 MB/s) would give only little advantage over ATA100. A 64-bit SATA1 card (150 MB/s) would give some more, while a 64-bit SATA2 card (266 MB/s) would be substantially faster than ATA100.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 30.10.2012 - 10:23 ]

Hey!
Let get some SATA II controller support rolling (there's plenty of Sil chipsets for that).
Thanks Andreas.

BTW - Was that PCI bandwidth quote for 33 or 66MHz?

> Was that PCI bandwidth quote for 33 or 66MHz?

That was for 33 MHz 64-bit, which is the spec of the PowerMac G4's PCI slots. That said, I don't know if there are SATA controller cards using the 64-bit PCI mode at all. If not, this would mean using the 64-bit slots in 32-bit mode, which halves the theoretical bandwidth to just 133 MB/s. I'll edit my previous posting to reflect that.

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

I really doubt it. So we really are limited to about SATA1 speed.

>> I don't know if there are SATA controller cards using the
>> 64-bit PCI mode at all

> I really doubt it.

Found one:

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_sata_x4i.html

"What kind of performance can I expect from a using a Sonnet Tempo SATA Card in a PCI slot (like in a Power Mac G4)?
Our testing has shown that a four-drive array will sustain maximum reads and writes of about 200 MB/second in a 64bit, 33MHz PCI slot."
http://www.sonnettech.com/support/kb/kb.php?cat=342&expand=_a2&action=b67#b67

Just a MorphOS driver missing ;-)

HDD Speedresults Irix Diskperf (SGI@600Mhz)

HDTach V3.0.4.0, General Read Test, in order of Max Sustained Speed:

Max Min Average Burst Random
Brand (OEM) / Type Size RPM Conn. Model (MB/sec) (MB/sec) (MB/sec) (MB/sec) Access (ms)

2 x Seagate (HP) 6Gbit SAS 2x450GB 15K SAS ST3450857SS / EF0450FARMV 327.5 191.2 247.5 364.1 5.6 (3Gbit/sec SAS connection)
2 x Seagate (HP) 3Gbit SAS 2x450GB 15K SAS ST3450856SS / DF0450B8054 322.5 188.6 247.2 356.7 5.6
2 x Hitachi (HP) 3Gbit SAS 2x450GB 15K SAS HUS154545VLS300 / DF0450BAERH 294.3 187.2 246.0 415.7 6.0
2 x Samsung SpinPoint F3 2x1000GB 7200 SATA HD103SJ 291.3 185.5 227.8 348.8 13.5
Hitachi (Dell) 6Gbit SAS 600GB 15K SAS HUS156060VLS60 / D348K 213.3 118.8 169.9 255.1 5.6 (3Gbit/sec SAS connection)
Seagate (Dell) 6Gbit SAS 600GB 15K SAS ST3600857SS / 0J762N 201.6 124.7 175.4 214.3 5.5 (3Gbit/sec SAS connection)
Seagate (HP) 6Gbit SAS 450GB 15K SAS ST3450857SS / EF0450FARMV 201.5 129.1 179.1 213.3 5.5 (3Gbit/sec SAS connection)
Seagate (HP) 3Gbit SAS 450GB 15K SAS ST3450856SS / DF0450B8054 183.1 105.0 147.7 229.7 5.6
Hitachi (HP) 3Gbit SAS 450GB 15K SAS HUS154545VLS300 / DF0450BAERH 162.8 103.7 136.9 251.7 6.0
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB 7200 SATA HD103SJ 145.0 75.0 118.6 267.3 13.2
Seagate Cheetah (HP) 146GB 15K SCA ST3146855LC 135.0 81.0 114.0 197.1 5.7
Seagate Cheetah (SUN) 146GB 15K SAS ST3146855SS 132.0 78.0 114.1 228.7 5.8
Western Digital Velociraptor 150GB 10K SATA WD1600HLFS 132.0 79.0 107.0 248.0 6.9
Fujitsu 147GB 15K SAS MBA3147RC 131.2 69.8 109.5 246.2 6.2
Fujitsu 300GB 15K SCA MBA3300NC 131.0 74.0 107.9 230.9 6.1
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 750GB 7200 SATA ST3750330NS 115.7 53.1 92.4 174.0 13.0
Samsung SpinPoint F1 1000GB 7200 SATA HD103UJ 115.0 55.0 89.8 235.9 16.5
Maxtor Atlas 15K II 146GB 15K SCA 8E147J0 105.0 74.0 89.8 225.1 6.8
Maxtor Atlas 15K II 146GB 15K SCA 8K147J0 105.0 74.0 89.3 222.4 5.7
Maxtor Atlas 15K II 36GB 15K SCA 8K036J0 104.0 73.0 88.6 227.0 5.3
Maxtor Atlas 10K V 73GB 10K SCA 8J073J0 100.0 45.0 72.8 226.9 7.3
Seagate Cheetah (HP) 36GB 15K SCA ST336754LC / 5065-5286 98.0 55.0 80.6 239.7 5.7
Maxtor (IBM) 300GB 10K SCA 8J300J0 98.0 48.0 74.6 221.3 8.0
Fujitsu (Worldisk) 36GB 15K 68P MAX3036NP / MX03036SC680600U 97.2 59.0 81.0 222.6 5.7
Fujitsu (Worldisk) 73GB 15K SCA MAX3073NC / MX03073SC800600X 97.0 62.0 82.3 230.9 5.7
Fujitsu 147GB 15K SCA MAX3147NC 96.4 62.0 82.4 227.0 5.7
Fujitsu (SUN) 147GB 15K SCA MAU3147NC 96.0 62.0 81.5 216.8 5.7
Hitachi Ultrastar 147GB 15K 68P HUS151414VL3600 95.0 63.0 79.1 228.1 6.0
CSC OEM (ST3146854LC) 146GB 15K SCA OEM146LC-15 / CSC150GB15K 95.0 55.0 78.7 235.6 5.7
Seagate Cheetah 146GB 15K SCA ST3146854LC 95.0 55.0 78.5 239.0 5.8
Maxtor Atlas 15K 73GB 15K 68P 8C073L0 95.0 55.0 78.5 234.1 5.7
Maxtor Atlas 10K V 147GB 10K SCA 8D147J0 95.0 51.0 73.3 222.9 8.9
Fujitsu (Worldisk) 36GB 15K SCA MAX3036NC / MX03036SC800600X 94.4 61.6 81.3 227.4 5.6
Hitachi Ultrastar 36GB 15K 68P HUS151436VL3600 93.8 68.2 82.6 233.1 5.7
Seagate Savvio 10K.2 (SUN) 146GB 10K SAS ST9146802SS 93.0 55.0 75.7 226.4 7.2
Fujitsu 300GB 10K 68P MAT3300NP 93.0 50.0 73.2 216.4 7.7
Hitachi (SUN) 146GB 10K SAS HUC101414CSS300 92.0 50.0 73.6 251.2 7.1
Fujitsu 146GB 10K SCA MAW3147NC 91.0 64.0 75.9 230.5 7.3
Fujitsu 147GB 10K 68P MAT3147NP 91.0 53.0 72.7 216.8 7.7
Maxtor Atlas 10K V 73GB 10K 68P 8D073L0 90.0 50.0 74.1 225.5 9.4
Fujitsu 73GB 10K SCA MAT3073NC 90.0 50.0 73.5 222.6 7.7
Fujitsu 73GB 10K 68P MAT3073NP 90.0 51.0 73.4 230.4 7.7
Fujitsu (HP) 300GB 10K SCA MAW3300NC / BD30089BBA 90.0 50.0 73.0 217.2 7.8
Fujitsu (IBM) 300GB 10K SCA MAT3300NC 90.0 50.0 72.0 222.8 7.9
Hitachi 300GB 10K SCA HUS103030FL3800 90.0 48.0 71.8 211.0 8.0
Seagate Savvio 10K/2 2.5" 146GB 10K SAS ST9146802SS 89.7 56.0 75.4 224.1 7.4
Worldisk 147GB 10K SCA MXJ3147SC800600X 89.0 52.0 73.2 222.8 7.6
Seagate Barracuda ES 750GB 7200 SATA ST3750640NS 82.2 41.5 67.8 248.6 13.3
Fujitsu (Worldisk) 36GB 15K SCA MAS3367NC / MX03367SC800600S 80.3 61.8 74.8 219.7 5.5
Fujitsu 36GB 15K SCA MAS3367NC 80.0 64.0 75.0 218.2 5.4
Seagate Cheetah 146GB 10K SCA ST3146707LC 80.0 39.0 65.3 230.4 7.8
Seagate Cheetah 300GB 10K SCA ST3300007LC 80.0 40.0 65.0 234.7 8.0
Seagate Cheetah 300GB 10K 68P ST3300007LW 80.0 39.0 64.7 234.8 8.0
Seagate Cheetah (HP) 36GB 15K SCA BF03685A35 / 9U9006-038 77.0 50.0 66.4 217.4 6.3
Maxtor Atlas 15K 36GB 15K SCA 8C036J0 76.0 55.0 66.7 240.0 5.7
Maxtor Atlas 10K IV 36GB 10K SCA 8B036J0 75.0 44.0 60.4 243.1 7.2
Maxtor Atlas 10K IV 73GB 10K SCA 8B073J0 75.0 40.5 60.3 244.2 7.5
Fujitsu (HP) 9GB 10K SCA BD00965CC3 73.0 66.0 68.6 127.6 6.8
Seagate Cheetah (HP) 36GB 10K SCA BD03685A24 / 9V4006-042 73.0 38.0 56.6 223.6 8.7
Fujitsu 147GB 10K SCA MAP3147NC 72.0 40.5 58.2 213.8 8.1
Fujitsu 36GB 10K SCA MAP3367NC 72.0 40.0 58.5 214.1 8.0
Seagate Cheetah (SGI) 73GB 10K SCA ST373307LC 70.0 38.0 56.6 219.9 7.8
Seagate Cheetah 36GB 10K SCA ST336607LC 70.0 37.0 56.6 216.1 8.0
Seagate Cheetah 36GB 10K 68P ST336607LW 70.0 38.0 56.3 221.9 8.0
Seagate Cheetah 73GB 10K 68P ST373307LW 70.0 39.0 55.6 224.2 7.9
Seagate Cheetah 146GB 10K SCA ST3146807LCV 70.0 38.0 55.5 133.0 8.0
Hitachi Ultrastar (SGI) 73GB 10K 68P IC35L073UWDY10-0 / 064-0266-002 67.0 35.0 52.1 240.0 8.1
IBM eServer xSeries 146GB 10K 68P IC35L146UWDY10-0 67.0 35.0 52.1 76.3 8.5
Hitachi Ultrastar (SGI) 36GB 10K 68P IC35L036UWDY10-0 / 064-0265-002 67.0 34.0 52.0 198.6 8.1
Seagate Cheetah (Compaq) 18GB 15K SCA BF01864663 / 9T4006-023 62.0 44.0 55.1 131.6 5.9
Seagate Savvio (SUN) 73GB 10K SAS ST973401SS 62.0 40.0 54.1 230.5 7.4
Seagate Cheetah 36GB 15K SCA ST336752LC 61.0 44.0 55.2 129.9 6.1
Seagate Cheetah 18GB 15K SCA ST318452LC 61.0 45.0 55.0 128.8 5.9
Quantum Atlas 10K III 36GB 10K SCA KW36J018 58.0 31.0 47.2 142.0 7.8
Fujitsu 18GB 15K SCA MAM3184MC 57.0 44.0 53.4 144.2 6.0
Fujitsu 36GB 15K SCA MAM3367MC 57.0 43.0 53.4 145.6 6.1
Quantum Atlas 10K III 36GB 10K SCA KW36J461 57.0 32.0 47.8 143.1 7.7
Quantum Atlas 10K III 36GB 10K SCA KU36J461 57.0 31.5 47.2 203.7 7.8
Fujitsu (Compaq) 18GB 10K SCA MAN3184MC / BD0186459A 57.0 35.0 47.1 144.4 7.9
Fujitsu (Compaq) 36GB 10K SCA MAN3367MC / BD03666459B 57.0 34.5 47.0 145.7 7.9
Seagate Cheetah 73GB 10K SCA ST373405LCV 57.0 34.0 46.8 129.5 8.8
Seagate Cheetah (SGI) 73GB 10K SCA ST373405LC 56.0 34.0 46.8 130.8 8.5
Seagate Cheetah 36GB 10K SCA ST336605LC 56.0 34.0 46.7 130.9 8.0
Seagate Cheetah 36GB 10K SCA ST336706LC 55.0 43.0 51.2 131.7 8.6
Seagate Cheetah (Compaq) 36GB 10K SCA BD03664553 / 9T9001-030 55.0 43.0 50.9 133.2 8.6
Seagate (Compaq) 18GB 10K SCA BD01864552 / 9U3001-030 54.0 42.0 50.6 131.5 8.8
Seagate Cheetah (SGI) 18GB 10K SCA ST318406LC 54.0 42.0 50.4 133.7 8.8
Hitachi 36GB 10K SCA DK32DJ-36MC 50.0 30.0 42.0 140.9 8.1
Fujitsu 36GB 10K SCA MAJ3364MC 43.0 27.0 36.8 121.8 8.4
Fujitsu 18GB 10K SCA MAJ3182MC 43.0 26.5 36.8 60.8 8.6
Fujitsu (Compaq) 9GB 10K SCA MAJ3091MC / BD009635C3 43.0 25.0 34.6 96.7 8.3
Quantum Atlas (Compaq) 18GB 10K SCA BD018635CC / TY18J49B 43.0 24.0 34.0 134.9 7.5
Quantum Atlas 10K II 36GB 10K SCA TY36J013 43.0 25.0 34.3 135.8 7.8
Quantum Atlas (Compaq) 18GB 10K SCA BD018635CC 43.0 24.0 34.1 134.5 7.5
Quantum Atlas 10K II 36GB 10K SCA TY36J461 43.0 23.0 33.8 134.5 7.7
Seagate Cheetah 9GB 15K SCA BF00963643 42.0 36.0 38.6 128.1 6.3
Seagate (Compaq) 18GB 15K SCA BF01863644 / 9P2006-022 42.0 32.0 37.5 128.3 6.5
Quantum Atlas 10K II (Compaq) 36GB 10K SCA BD03663622 / TY36J49B 42.0 24.0 34.0 134.6 7.9
Hitachi 36GB 10K SCA DK32CJ-36MC 38.0 22.0 31.4 145.9 8.4
Seagate Cheetah 36GB 10K SCA ST336704LCV 37.0 23.0 32.3 73.1 8.6
Seagate Cheetah 36GB 10K SCA ST336704LC 36.5 23.5 32.3 131.4 9.0
Seagate Cheetah 9GB 10K SCA ST39204LC 36.0 24.0 32.4 128.1 9.8
Seagate Cheetah 1.6" 73GB 10K SCA ST173404LCV 36.0 21.0 31.8 128.2 9.9
IBM 9GB 10K SCA DDYS-T09170 36.0 22.0 28.6 125.4 8.5
IBM (SGI) 18GB 7200 SCA DPSS-318350 / 064-0141-002 32.5 19.5 26.2 144.4 11.1
IBM Ultrastar 9GB 7200 SCA DPSS-309170 32.0 22.0 27.0 129.6 10.0
Quantum Atlas V 18GB 10K 68P XC18L011 30.0 17.0 24.9 125.8 11.0
Quantum Atlas V 36GB 7200 SCA XC36J011 30.0 17.0 24.5 131.1 10.4
IBM Ultrastar 36GB 10K SCA DDYS-T36950 29.0 16.0 21.5 125.0 9.0
Western Digital 9GB 10K SCA WDE9150-0042A2 28.0 17.0 24.5 76.1 8.7
Seagate Cheetah 18GB 10K SCA ST318436LC 27.0 16.0 23.6 119.3 11.9
Quantum Atlas (Compaq) 9GB 10K SCA BD00912578 / TN09J49B 26.1 17.9 23.3 73.6 8.6
Quantum Atlas 10K 18GB 10K 68P TN18L462 26.0 18.0 23.5 96.2 8.4
Quantum Atlas (Compaq) 18GB 10K SCA BD01862376 / TN18J49B 26.0 18.0 23.3 94.6 8.4
IBM Ultrastar 9GB 7200 SCA DNES-309170 20.5 12.8 16.7 24.6 11.6
IBM Ultrastar 18GB 7200 68P DNES-318350 20.2 13.0 16.7 70.4 12.0
IBM (Compaq) 9GB 10K SCA DRVS-09D 20.0 15.0 19.1 73.1 8.9
IBM (SGI) 18GB 7200 SCA DNES-318350 / 064-0113-001 20.0 13.0 16.7 70.2 12.0
Seagate Barracuda 18GB 7200 50P ST318418N 19.8 19.4 19.6 19.8 10.7
IBM 9GB 7200 50P DNES-309170 19.8 13.0 16.5 19.6 11.7
Seagate Cheetah 4.5GB 10K SCA ST34502LW 19.2 12.8 16.4 22.5 8.5
Seagate (Compaq) 9GB 10K SCA BD00911934 / 9J8006-070 19.2 12.5 16.5 21.5 8.5
IBM (Compaq) 1.6" 18GB 7200 SCA DGHS-18Y 15.5 7.9 12.7 18.8 11.7
IBM (Compaq) 9GB 7200 SCA DGHS-09Y / 313706-B21 15.5 7.8 12.6 17.6 11.3
Seagate Cheetah 4.5GB 10K 50P ST34501N 15.0 10.0 12.9 19.2 11.6
Western Digital 9GB 7200 68P WDE9100-0007A6 13.6 8.4 11.7 16.6 12.4
IBM (SGI) 9GB 7200 SCA DDRS-39130 / 064-0076-001 13.5 8.5 11.1 18.1 12.8
IBM 4.5GB 7200 SCA DORS-34560 13.5 8.5 11.0 18.2 12.6
Seagate 1.6" 9GB 7200 SCA ST19171WC 11.2 7.0 9.7 19.1 18.6
Seagate Barracuda 4.5GB 7200 SCA ST34572WC / 064-0039-001 10.8 6.7 9.5 15.3 13.9
IBM (Compaq) 1.6" 9GB 7200 SCA DCHS-09Y / 242899-001 10.1 6.7 9.1 11.4 13.4
IBM (SGI) 4.5GB 7200 SCA DCHS-04Y / 064-0039-001 10.1 6.5 9.1 11.6 13.0
Quantum Atlas II (SGI) 4.5GB 7200 SCA HN45J011 / 064-0039-001 10.0 5.9 8.6 32.7 12.7
Seagate 4.5GB 7200 SCA ST34371WC 9.6 6.0 8.7 13.0 14.2
Seagate 2.1GB 5400 SCA ST32171WC 9.5 6.0 8.6 13.0 14.8
Fujitsu 2.4GB 5400 68P M2952QYF 9.5 6.5 8.5 23.9 12.8
IBM 2.1GB 5400 SCA DORS-32160 5.8 3.8 4.9 6.4 16.2

Neither the controller,nor the Slot does effect,the Drive gives.......

> Neither the controller,nor the Slot does effect,the Drive gives.......

As soon as the drive itself could nominally go faster than the controller/bus/slot it is attached to, the latter becomes the bottleneck that limits the throughput in the end.

I have one of those.
I wasn't aware that it worked as a 64 bit card until you pointed out that page.
Is this thing supported by MorphOS?

It only works as a secondary controller, but then that's what I'm using SATA drives for anyway.

> I wasn't aware that it worked as a 64 bit card

Well, it has a full-length 64-bit connector ;-)

> Is this thing supported by MorphOS?

See my previous posting :-)

Damn, and you got me all excited.

Weird Marvell 88SX6042-BCZ. if that an Soc?

Edit - Nope "88SX6042 PCI-X 4-Port SATA-II"

Marvell data, there are Linux drivers so a model exists.

Oh well, I've got the best controller for one of our systems and isn't supported and likely never will be.

Thanks Andreas

[ Edited by Jim 30.10.2012 - 22:14 ]

@Motosampy:
I found this link:
http://forums.applecentral.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/477040/Flashed_Sil3512_info
in wich another link
http://www.wiebetech.com/webtech.php?sfid=133&pcode=TC-PCI
has the necessary tool to flash the 3512.
May I use this or is there another way to do it?
Thanks?

Successfully flashed my 3512 at work. Let's see what happens when I get home, time for fun!

Success! My system doesn't lock up when copying large files to or from the SATA drives. The weibetech firmware works!

Thats great news. Now that I think about it it was that same Syba card I bought off ebay. Now sometime I will have to make a spare MDD bootable to Mac OS X to flash the card.

@pan1k

Is that card bootable? Like will it boot with that firmware and have MorphOS installed directly without the help of an IDE/DoM?

Not sure about booting. I will have to experiment later!

@Jambalah

Yes, that is correct tool and firmware

@pan1k & Doffo

After flashing the card will be bootable.
I have no IDE drive in my MDD.

Oh.. and thanks to Motosampy!!!! You are the man.. !!

@Motosampy:

pan1k,
Quote:

+1!
I flashed 3512 sata card with succes! No probs now. Thanks very much!!!

Maybe we should add this to the FAQ?

What kind of bounty would I need to post to get someone to consider drivers for the previously mentioned Sonnet SATAII controller card based on the Marvell 88SX6042-BCZ PCI-X 4-Port SATA-II controller?

Thanks Motosampy :)

I am happy to report that flashing the SATA card on a Mac MDD G4 FW800 worked great! :) The card I bought off ebay was a Syba branded one, but looks much like the one talked about. My card is placed next to the AGP slot, so flashtool reported it back as being in PCI Slot 2.

I have Mac OS X 10.5.1 installed (Fresh install since I wanted to see if the utility would word.), so I am not sure if older versions of of Mac OS X had issues. I downloaded the utility that was provided here for the WiebeSata 3512.

Here is what I did to get it to flash:

1.extract the wiebeflash file to your desktop.
2.Open up a terminal shell
3.Give yourself super user by typing 'sudo su' along with your account name
4.Now, use cd for change directory until you are in your wiebeflash folder
ex: /Users/asdfasdf/Desktop/wiebeflash/

5.Now, DRAG the FlashTool to your Terminal window, then press ENTER (Trying to run it by typing in the name doesnt do anything, unless I missed a command)
5.Follow the steps and be sure to flash it with the FIRMWARE for mac compatibilty
6.reboot, then check system profiler if it is listed in the PCI cards. :)

*If it says cannot open file, then you did not CD into the correct folder wiebeflash is in.*

ENJOY!