> The periperal cards that can be plugged into a Powermac are very similar
> to those that work in a Pegasos, making porting simpler. A G5 would require
> many additional new drivers as it's expansion slots and the cards that plug
> into them are considerably different.

Except for the last PowerMac G5 generation (late 2005) every PowerMac G5 has PCI(-X) slots that can be populated with the same cards that fit into the PCI slots of a PowerMac G4. I guess that you're confusing the drivers needed for on-board components (that's where G4 and G5 Macs really differ from each other) with drivers for expansion cards.

@Jim
Quote:

Sure, but it's still a well documented PPC with a 32bit compatible mode that uses OpenFirmware

Quote:

They are interested in getting wifi working but it's simply too much work ATM. AROS guys are working on Poseidon USB drivers for some common wifi usb adapters so that could be ported easily if it works this year: [url]http://www.power2people.org/bounty_054.html[/url]

I guess that using MiamiDX(for the modem stuff) and a mobilephone as usbmodem it would be possible to have 3G internet access.

A 1.7Ghz powerbook is still much more interesting for me than a big bulky and slower g4 tower.

Quote:

That's already offered by Mac Minis and eMacs. Mac Minis are cheaper everyday (and are also quite wife friendly due to their small case

On the other hand people is watching FullHD video nowadays and G5s would be a good choice for that.

Quote:

Pegasos and powermac have absolutly nothing in common apart from using same cpu and having usb ports.

AFAIK Powermacs use different chipsets for network/audio cards and supporting different generations causes much more work than Mac Mini version.

You want a really cheap way to run MorphOS? you have Efika, eMac, Mac Mini... powerbook version is really desired and G5 would be perfect to gain maximum possible PPC performance on single core.

Note: I don't expect powerbook version anytime soon and I guess we may never see a G5 version.

[ Edited by Crumb on 2010/6/11 1:55 ]

While the chipset of the MDD is different, the chipsets of all earlier G4 Powermacs are very similar.
The differences between Quicksilver and Digital Audio models is very minor.
I have no interest in the Mac Mini. It has very limited expansion capabilities, fairly low video memory, and no third party processor upgrades.
If I have to buy a MDD, I will, but as I've said before, the minor amount of work necessary to support the other Powermacs makes this decision quite regrettable.

Thing is the MorphOS-team has rather limitd resources and while they actually do listen to their users, there is also the "take it or leave it" paradigma.
They will offer MDD and probably FW800 support. Good if you have one. Iif not, rather bad luck. But eventually it is rather pointless to blame someone about it.
You know, I am since ages in the Amiga community. And there is one thing I learned: Never ever expect anything. And usually the MorphOS team promises nothing, too. It was a lesson learned from too many broken promises ages ago.
Sure, a detailed roadmap and all that would be nice. And while we e.g. got many hints for powerbook support, I still refuse to actually buy one. I will probably wait until it gets official whether a relase will come at all and for which models in particular. Patience is the key and - way more important - taking opportunities when the actually are there.
Look, I bought a Pegasos when available, I got an Efika and since lasr October I use a Mac mini. Maybe those maschines are not always my dream maschines (well, actually I like all 3 of them very much), but by obtaining what's actually available I have fun with MorphOS since years.
Bottom line: Don't worry, it will probably lead nowhere. And maybe you should consider to get a mini, emac or a supported Powermac (once a release for those is out that is).

[ Edited by Zylesea on 2010/6/11 3:57 ]

Oh boy there aree so many things I "love" about this thread

1. One of the top Morphos developers "pega-1" aka Frank Mariak father of Cybergrafx and one of the TOP amiga developers of all time posts information and users question it.. thats a good one.

2. Users getting pissed their bs quicksilver boat anchor wont be supported.

3. Developers finally being extremely open on forums and users crying and talking fantasyland like Morph on G5 (NOT going to happen)
etc etc

Quote:

First, my "boat anchor" is faster than a Pegasos and it can be upgraded to be faster than the MDD.
Second, I agree that talk about a G5 version is ridiculous. That processor would require major revisions to the OS.


[ Edited by Jim on 2010/6/11 5:33 ]

Talk about MorphOS being ported to a G5 Mac model may be ridiculous, but MorphOS can't stay on the G4 forever and eventually it must be ported to more powerful hardware. That might be next year, or 2 years from now, but some day work will have to begin to port MorphOS to newer, more powerful hardware, or everyone will eventually lose interest in MorphOS. Now, if porting to the G5 will take almost as much work as porting MorphOS to x86, or x64, then it is obvious that the G5 should never be an option. If however the work to port to the G5 is only half or less than the work to port to x86, or x64, then it might make sense to port to the G5 after all ports to G4 Mac models are completed, if there is no other cpu option that makes sense before that work begins.

@Jim

Well... you know your options now, why not give AROS a try if you don't feel like spending money on MorphOS compatible hardware?

What I personally don't understand is the confusion here wrt to G5s. Porting to G5 doesn't necessarily mean make the OS 64-bit. The G5 can run 32-bit ppc code quite fine. In fact, it's guaranteed to run 32-bit apps just as well as any G4 -only faster. In fact, making the OS run on the G5 in 32-bit mode, should only require very few modifications, though I admit the work needed for the chipsets on the G5 macs would require much more work. But it might be worth it?

> What I personally don't understand is the confusion here wrt to G5s. Porting to G5
> doesn't necessarily mean make the OS 64-bit. The G5 can run 32-bit ppc code quite
> fine. In fact, it's guaranteed to run 32-bit apps just as well as any G4

I can't see anybody in this thread who implied otherwise. So it seems you're preaching to the choir here ;-)

Edit: You may have referred specifically to Jim's statement that support for G5 processor "would require major revisions to the OS". Indeed that's exaggerated I think. Due to there being only supervisor mode differences the major revision for G5 processor support would be to the OS startup code alone. Thus, his statement would be more fitting if he replaced either "[G5] processor" by "[G5] boards" or "OS" by "OS startup code" :-)

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2010/6/11 13:37 ]

Quote:

Mac Mini doesn't need third party cpus because it's already quite fast. If you want more speed you may overclock it... there's people who raised cpu frequenzy to something higher than 1.7GHz (1.8Ghz IIRC). 3rd party processor upgrades for g4 powermacs aren't exactly cheap and won't make your system much faster than an overclocked Mac Mini.

You can buy models with 64MB of gfx memory (it's not a lot but it's enough for MorphOS)

What kind of "expansion" do you need? (seriously). If you need access to more storage Mac Mini has USB2.0 ports. Ethernet100 is supported, audio is fine. I can't think of many PCI cards I would want to fit on my MorphOS computers... USB2.0? comes as standard. BT878 capturers? analogicTv no longer works here. SCSI cards? I just use scsi on my classic amigas... for MorphOS machines I prefer cheaper IDE as it's enough fast for desktop use and uses DMA.

> there's people who raised cpu frequenzy to something higher than 1.7GHz (1.8Ghz IIRC).

Yes, 1.83 GHz to be more precise :-)

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6780&forum=11

Quote:

I already have a machine running AROS. And, I thought I'd have a Powermac running MorphOS soon. But, since I've got a Quicksilver it appears that I may not be able to run on this. You know, I don't remember seeing any postings suggesting that only certain Powermacs would be supported (as long as they had AGP slots).

And this is hardly about money. I wouldn't have bought and modified a 256MB Sapphire 9250, purchased an SCSI controller and drives, a USB 2.0 card, a Soundblaster Live card, and a new keyboard if I was worried about money.

It was never mentioned that Powermac support was going to be limited to the MDD. Now I may have to buy a new Powermac and pay the 111 Euros for the OS. It's annoying, but I'll probably do it.

But you're right about one thing, an AROS system would be cheaper for me (as I have a lot of PC parts laying around).

And, as to the Mac Mini, it has NO expansion slots. If you're happy with that, fine. But even if I have to wait (and switch) to an MDD I want expandability. And 1.83 Mhz on a Mac Mini with 64 MB of video memory is not 2.0 Mhz on a Quicksilver with 256MB of video memory (ans a sound card that works with MorphOS)

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/6/11 20:32 ]

@Jim

I understand your frustration, my friend, but sometimes we can't help our mistakes. I was very lucky, i was gonna get a Quicksilver, but an MDD w/o power supply turned up, I had RAM from my Dell that was compatible, and I found that OC article. Only problem was no PSU. I was lucky in that i have connections w/ a Mac recycler. I was equally annoyed at the support delay for Powermac, but I have been enjoying OS X.

That same company also sells loads of MDDS, here is their website, VA isn't too terribly far from DE, they have MDDs at very low prices: http://www.recycle4va.com/Home.php Just understand that your frustration is mirrored elsewhere.

@Thread
Whens MOS 2.6 coming!? (Seriously, don't answer me though)
I notice when a new release is out, people (Myself included) seem to get annoyed at one thing or another, strange, isn't it?

> 256MB of video memory

...of which MorphOS can only handle the first half as of now. Admittedly, 128 is still twice as much as 64.

> a sound card that works with MorphOS

This point of comparison to Mac mini I don't understand. Sound on Mac mini is supported flawlessly by MorphOS 2.5.

That's good news about the Mac Mini's sound under 2.5, since there were plenty of negative posts under earlier revisions.
And its not just that the Mini only has 64 MB of video memory, it can't be upgraded because its on board.
If more powerful video cards are supported in the future, Mini owners are SOL.

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/6/12 4:24 ]

Sound was working just fine on Mac mini in 2.4 too. The only related issue was the lack of global mixer control, because the Mac mini doesn't have hardware volume control, so a software volume control had to be implemented.

Sorry to even bring up that issue.
I'm sure the Mini is an adequate solution for many users.
I just want to have a system with expansion slots.
Frankly, I'd buy a Peg before I'd buy a Mini.

Morphos with the MacMini has been a Godsend! It is NOT ADEQUATE! IT RULES!!!
Slots abound in Las Vegas....USB and Poseidon is the way to sail

Tears of thank-you to the developers

[ Edited by osco on 2010/6/12 0:41 ]

Quote:

You are a very strange fellow. I don't care what Powermac model is eventually supported, but its bound to be a better solution than the Mini.

It'll have more graphics ram, and err.. be physically 10 times larger, noisier, and offer not really offer any other benfits. Sure the little mini's not for everyone, but it's great for MorphOS.

Shame about the 32mb of graphics ram, 64 as standard or 128 would have made it pretty much perfect!

Personally I think they should work flat out on the 1.67 GHz Powerbook, Dual g4@ 733 digitial audio, and G5 Dual 2Ghz mac models, and only them.

Why?

Cuz can get my hands on them that's why!

i have a quicksilver used to use it before i bought my g5(originaly for OSX & linux messing around)never seem to get rid of old hardware
i was waiting for mos to be ported to the quicksilver for the gigabit lan. but realy MOS doesnt need that speed lan. so i think i will buy the licence for the mini. glad to hear the global volume is working in 2.5, have some time off this wkend so will try n get around to installing it

not the right post for this but when does the reduced licence fee run out, as i don't get payed while the 25th of this month, i missed out on same offer on efika and never bought a licence for that.
dont want same to happen this time.

Quote:

In fact there are 256MB cards which work without problems with (recent due to the fact that 9600 has not been supported before) MorphOS. I use a Radeon9600Pro 256MB in my MDD PowerMac which maps it's memory as linear 256MB PCI/AGP aperture (as it should be).
The whole point about those R92xx 256MB cards that only support 128MB is that those map their memory space into physically seperated 128MB apertures and it's a mess to unify those apertures again. And in fact, you don't gain much from those additional 128MB with a MorphOS system, anyway. That's basically why I did not put any efforts into mapping the full range. It still might happen in a future release, though.

@pega-1

How much effort would it be to map those extra 128MB as Fast-RAM ?

Sure it wouldn't be really fast, but it should make an Efika just that much more usefull......